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New burst mechanics Read 874 times

Stribe

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New burst mechanics
« on: February 19, 2017, 12:47:09 AM »
The goal is to balance 1-hexing and have more realistic bursts by making the bullet tracking more detailed based on the PnP Fallout rules
All to hit rolls are made individually, no streams. All to hit rolls are first made on the prime target. The maximum success chance is 90%, not 95% (to simulate the “steamlined roll” in pnp and balance things) Failed hits are checked against the next nearest critters until a target is hit or there are no targets in the cone left to check. Rather than rounding as in the steamlined roll, bursts get a penalty of -2% to hit per hex to each bullet in the spray. Miniguns are no longer “Accurate” and get a new perk that halves or eliminates this penalty
Net effect: 1 Hexing is still the most effective damage wise, but slightly reduced from before; slightly more bullets will miss and misses can hit other targets. Medium range attacks with good skill can land many more bullets on one target under this system, making them a decent choice. Long range attacks are also slightly boosted but most affected by the burst penalty and likely to scatter hits on other targets. Miniguns in particularly keep to nearly 1-hex effectiveness for a good distance thanks to their new perk.

Love to hear some opinions about this idea.

Pathetic_Loser

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Re: New burst mechanics
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2017, 01:10:09 AM »
I approve of this idea, it would be nice for burst weapons to have effectiveness beyond melee range. I feel it would diversify the usage of weapons

Ravenis

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Re: New burst mechanics
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2017, 01:17:18 AM »
First test version of this new burst mechanics is now live on server.
Thanks to AnarchCassius for working on this.
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Ravenis

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Re: New burst mechanics
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2017, 01:30:00 AM »
Quote from our chat with AnarchCassius: First the burst checks against the primary target with the modifiers described previously. Any bullets that don't hit get check on the middle line out to the weapon's max range. The second center check is removed bc all bullets were checked and since I don't know what's closer w/o pathfinding I just split the remaining bullets 50/50 between left and right. Anything that misses on that third pass just goes wild and hits nothing.
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AnarchCassius

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Re: New burst mechanics
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2017, 02:16:23 AM »
Balance is still being tested. Some of the weapons seemed to never send streams left or right before and don't see much improvement. Others are possibly too good at range now. Feedback is appreciated.

The new perk for Miniguns will be the next step. Rapid Fire will replace Accurate for them (and maybe a couple others). Technically a nerf, this will make them less accurate overall but suffer less to burst accuracy at range as described above.

Zekromo

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Re: New burst mechanics
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2017, 12:08:58 PM »
You will need to revise the damage with the gatling laser. I went with Stribe to test damage @ Hinkley yesterday, and the damage from avenger and all other weapons were overtly alright: damage at 1 hex was similar to damage on range.

With the gatling it is the same with damage on 1 hex and damage on range, however the actual damage is outside the damage range we tested with the other weapons.

M60: Range (Approx 20 hex) 121 - 130         Hex: 125 - 140
Avenger: Range (Approx 20 hex) 131 - 160   Hex: 131 - 160
Gatling: Range (Approx 20 hex) 230 - 270 Hex: 240 - 270

Note: We tested for maybe an hour and the gatling reigned supreme for range and 1 hex. However it should be added that the gun skill I was testing the gatling with was at 180% EW, so if this is the main reason why damage output is higher, then maybe some tweaks are needed :D

Either way nice bursting mechanics; it is finally nice to see 1 hex being altered on a FOnline Server.

Mega Faggot

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Re: New burst mechanics
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2017, 05:17:53 PM »
Finally most optimal build for meele wont be avenger minigun / gatling  x3 Bonus Ranged Damage

Veki

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Re: New burst mechanics
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2017, 05:13:53 PM »
You destroy burst mechanic in game...with realistic burst( I dont know how can be something like this realistic, realistic is with burst you never hits target with all bullets, )
http://imgur.com/a/xtFK5 GG  this is dmg with 30 bulets...think what dmg will deal avanger with 40 bullets on maximal distance. Pls back how was before, and forget to change burst mechanics forever. tell me why  not chose avanger and 2 action boy , 2 brd and mrd, and double burst every player with my sniper avanger??? you can forget about locations ares , forget about mutie quest, forget about caravans... this burst mechanic totally destroy game. what weapon deal more dmg even with old burst mechanic on range?what weapon deal more dmg on range with new burst mechanic??? all builds now gonna be buster builds with brd, brd, mrd, and action boy, action boy. double burst secure kill anybody...
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 05:42:35 PM by Veki »

AnarchCassius

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Re: New burst mechanics
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2017, 11:12:42 AM »
It's in testing. We're trying to move away from the abrupt damage increase at one hex. The current setup is clearly not going to work without further tweaks, so...

We've added the burst damage penalty from Fallout Tactics, so all bursts, one hex or not, will be a bit less scary.

We've fixed some weirdness of the burst crit system I hadn't noticed before. Not sure how big a factor this was but it should be cleaner now.

We've increased the accuracy penalty a bit so shots will scatter more except at the highest skill levels.

If these still don't work out we can adjust values and possibly added a forced scatter regardless of skill. I'd like to avoid that since it's how 1-hex got created in the first place but I do have a formula that's more gradual if need be.

Zekromo

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Re: New burst mechanics
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2017, 12:33:51 PM »
The bursting criticals were more apparent since the bursting mechanics were released; minigun, P90 and HKCaws Slags would crit every other shot, making it impossible to do any sort of locker farming. Imo minigun crits more than the other weapons mentioned, not to mention that a basic minigun without any sort of damage bonus perks does roughly 80 to 100+ damage more than a harking; laser gats doing 30 on range now?  :o :P

Veki

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Re: New burst mechanics
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2017, 02:12:55 PM »
why you move one hexa dmg?
is award , you need to go one hexa to kill somebody, and you can eassy miss? in team fights almost nobody can hexa you... second you have alredy solve one hexa kill with +60HP on begining(just take toughnes, even tougher, life giver x2)... i dont know why you remove hexa dmg? I am not good hexer, but i dont care about one hexar avanger, leave things like before, you brake mechanic in game, destroying balance in weapons, destroying PVE and PVP, for what?if you think is some weapon overpower? change weapon, no whole concept in game... i cant play this now.

AnarchCassius

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Re: New burst mechanics
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2017, 12:05:01 AM »
After much nerfing these are the current burst rules. Further nerfing may be need and if people notice particular weapons that seem to do well more than usual compared to the others please note them.

Updated 5/2/2017

  • At 1-hex all of the burst has a chance to hit the prime target; at one third of maximum range and beyond only one third of the burst does. The remaining rounds go left or right and the transition is smooth across distance, for example around two thirds of the burst has a chance to hit the prime target at one sixth of maximum range. This spread does not apply to 12 gauge and .223 ammo type weapons.
  • For each line failed hits are checked against the next nearest critter in the line until a target is hit or there are no targets in the line to check.
  • Burst damage is reduced to 90% of normal, after DT/DR calculations.
  • The maximum success chance is 90%, not 95% (to simulate the “streamlined roll” in PnP and balance things)
  • Bursts get a penalty of -2% to hit per hex from the target.
  • Miniguns are no longer “Accurate” and get “Rapid Fire”, a new weapon perk that halves the burst accuracy penalty.
  • Burst criticals no longer work different from other critical calculations, which gave bursts higher than average crits and accuracy. A master crit roll determines whether 50% of the bullets crit and what, if any, special effects from the table are applied. The remaining 50% of bullets check for critical damage only, individually and independent of the master roll.
Net effect: 1 Hexing is still the most effective damage wise, but somewhat reduced from before. Short range attacks can be almost as devastating. Medium range attacks with good skill can land many more bullets on one target under this system, making them a decent choice. Long range attacks are most affected by the burst penalty and will scatter rounds on other targets. Miniguns in particularly keep to nearly 1-hex effectiveness for a good distance thanks to their new perk but no longer have an accuracy bonus at close range.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 11:09:05 PM by AnarchCassius »